Episode Transcript
Bill Glenn (00:09.55)
I'm here with Willem Genesee, who's our coaching practice lead at Crenshaw. And Willem and I go back several years, back to days at American Express. And we at Crenshaw, and I'm personally grateful that he decided to join us in 2019 and lead our coaching practice. I have a range of questions for you today. I'm sure we'll enjoy some stories as well. Thanks for joining.
Thanks very much for having me, Bill. I'm looking forward to our discussion. We've had many of them. The question is how much we share on this particular podcast, but I appreciate being here. Thanks for your time too. Well, and you and I have talked a great deal recently about how complex the HR function is. We've talked about their teams and the opportunity for HR to invest in their leadership and their teams. So can you tell me a little more about that? Yeah, absolutely, Bill.
You know, the thing that makes it, I think, increasingly challenging for HR functions these days is the unprecedented demands and expectations on leaders. Leaders have so many different things to deal with now between workplace and environmental challenges, societal turmoil, and HR as the stewards of organizational cultures, they have to be
more nimble, you have to be real advisors and their processes have to be best in class. So this idea of investing in HR is so critical. And you and I've talked about also the, the tendency for human resources functions to suffer from the Cobbler's kids syndrome. Right. And they're focused on their internal customer, which is great, which is what should happen, but often.
We've observed with some of our clients that they don't get the attention they need. They don't get the investment, the development, or even the sort of the infusion of, I call it care and feeding, right? Helping the function to thrive and be present for their leaders. So it is, I think it's a tough time to be a present and real advisor in HR right now. And we've seen more and more
Bill Glenn (02:39.118)
of the advisor partner relationship between the CHRO and the CE.
And so you and I have been in discussions with CHROs who've talked about how do they make their team have a relationship similar to the CHRO, to the CEO, their impact to their business partner. Yeah, the notion of being a good trusted advisor to a business leader in HR
is pretty significant. And I know when I've talked to CHROs about the need to focus and invest on helping their HR function more business advisors and having better understanding of the business, being credible, understanding how, not just how the business operates, but the language, the specific talent challenges for the business. All those things are important to get
incredible relationship with senior business leaders. So yeah, the CHRO is performing that function with the CEO, but there almost has to be a direct correlation between that partnership and what the business -facing HR professionals need to do with their business partners as well. So the days of being the owners of the process and keeping the HR functions running on time and smoothly.
That's sort of minimum expectation now. Advice and anticipating and looking around corners. That's what that's what's expected. I think of a true business partner in HR. And I think in that in that answer, you talked a little bit about established legitimacy for the business corners. And so what are some of the key criteria to do that? Absolutely. You have to this may sound simple, but it's not. You have to understand.
Bill Glenn (04:42.99)
the business fundamentals, you have to understand the language, you have to speak in business terms so that leaders feel as though you understand what they're dealing with and will relate to you as a true partner. You also have to figure out how to seamlessly, seamlessly translate HR product and services to what the business needs. What does that mean? So as an example, if
A business leader has a challenge with motivating and providing incentive for, let's just use an example you and I are close to, their sales team, right? The capable HR business partner will understand, okay, what levers do I have in compensation, in talent management, in recruiting that can directly affect what this business leader is trying to do.
The business leader will understand, OK, it's HR important and knows how to bring those goods and services to my business and help me succeed and meet the challenges that I have. It should be it should be really seamless and evident to the business leader how you drop back value. Well, I'd like to talk a little bit about team leadership and alignment. And we know. Even teams with great talent. Need alignment. And support.
to drive effectiveness, whether it's effectiveness about the strategy, whether it's effectiveness about their growth criteria, whether it's effectiveness about external lenses to the customer. How are we thinking about team leadership and alignment? Yeah. This I think is a real current and prevalent theme with our clients. How do they bring their teams along in an effective way? In our niche,
the senior levels, the C -suite, most leadership teams and executive teams are called teams just by virtue of reporting to the CEO. Being part of a leadership team, when you think about how a real team functions, there's a lot of work that tends to need to be done. And this idea of alignment, you need role clarity. I need to know what your role is and mine is.
Bill Glenn (07:10.382)
clarity about what you're trying to achieve. So the leader plays a big role in clarifying what you're aiming for and the vision. And then we've talked about this bill, two other really important ingredients for effective teams is trust. So I have to trust, you know, that you have my back and that I can count on you to do what I think you need to do. And recently we've had discussions around psychological safety.
and the ability for people to feel comfortable sharing opposing points of view, disagreeing without fear of retaliation or being shut down in a team setting. So there's a lot to consider to have a really well -run and effective team in the true sense of team as compared to a group of executives working together, which is what most leadership teams end up being.
Yeah, I like using the term.
Collaborative conflict. Where the leader invites the team to have debate over issues. Collaboration in itself, to me, is a little naked. It doesn't promote good outcomes. It sort of connotes, let's get along. And all are aligned at the end of the day, but before that,
It's more about let's get along and not necessarily get to the greatest answer, which requires conflict and debate. Yep, absolutely. And you and I both know it's what happens after the meeting that counts. Right. So you're in a leadership team discussion and you and your colleagues are nodding yes, you're displaying agreement. But to your point,
Bill Glenn (09:10.798)
When you leave that meeting, are the two of you going to get together and work together towards a common goal? And that does come down to some of the things I just mentioned. I have to trust you. I have to understand what your role is compared to mine or along with mine. And we have to be aligned to meeting the objective together as, as compared to individually. you know, going back to my bowling analogy, there are times it's okay to be an individual contributor.
You are the one that has the capability. So have that it, but there are also times you need to be aligned as a group. Willem, can you talk a little bit about the rigor that we have in our process or team effectiveness, leadership and alignment? Yeah, absolutely. And rigor is the right word. There are multiple steps that we typically I'd say sort of deploy when we're doing team effectiveness work. So the first place is to start with the leader.
try to understand what the leader is trying to accomplish, whether it is remedial, helping the team be more effective. You really want to get aligned with the leader in terms of their expectations and what you're helping them accomplish with the team. That's one piece. The other piece is interviews with the team members. And that provides an opportunity for you to get unbornish feedback from each executive on the team about their perspective.
whether it's team behavior, the culture of the organization, or feedback for the leader about what they're trying to accomplish. That's the other piece. Then we typically do some data gathering through assessments and behavioral reviews of how each team member prefers to perform their job. That's usually very eye -opening. It helps each executive on that team understand
the predominant behavior for their colleague and how best to work with their colleague or approach their colleague. And then there's typically a full intact session with the entire thing that culminates what we've learned from the leader, the behavioral assessment that we've conducted, the team interview themes. We don't disclose who said what, but we aggregate themes and we bring that together in a very impactful way.
Bill Glenn (11:34.062)
through a facilitated session with the entire team. And then once we've completed the facilitated session or event that we'll do with the team, we are ongoing partners with the executive team and the leader. We don't just leave after the facilitated session. We ensure that we're helping them to sustain change, stay on the right path, and provide ongoing consultation.
For a period of months after the team session or the offsite, whatever it is, that's an important component of how we help because you've got the information, you've got the data, and we've also forged a real important partnership with the leader and executive team members. So we leverage all of that to stay involved and continue to consult throughout the following periods after the offsite or the facilitated session as well. And you talked about
psychological safety and how important it is for that team. It's also important for them to cascade it individually in their functions. Great point. Yeah, psychological safety is very difficult to achieve at the executive team level and the notion of cascading that is really significant. And so it's the example of role modeling, right?
want to achieve a certain level of behaviors, but if your team doesn't see it, it's hard for them to emulate or replicate what you're trying to do. It's the same with psychological safety. You have to demonstrate it. You have to be real deliberate about it. And once it is achieved at the executive level with the senior team, then yeah, the opportunity and the necessity is to cascade it and demonstrate how it is important to the rest of the teams as well. Willem, you've worked on several cohorts.
program. Why is it something that's really, really important now? Why are more and more companies thinking about this? Is it to bridge training and coaching? What are some of the different models that we use? Yeah, there's a real appetite for cohort learning and cohort.
Bill Glenn (13:58.446)
coaching, which was a little surprising to me, because for coaching in particular, that tends to be a very individualized one -on -one type of service or delivery. It's private, it's confidential. But what we found with the cohort programs that we've done for our clients, the participants get real value in working together. And it's not necessarily executives who are on the same teams or even in the same businesses.
It is executives who are part of the same company, but they enjoy the opportunity to interact, to learn from, to compare notes with, and get to know and form relationships with other executives. So we've designed cohort programs that put similar executives together in groups so that they can do active learning together, understand content that the company provides, but
Our contribution, which is great, it helps the executives participating in learning really apply it to their day to day with the help of a sounding board, the help of an experienced coach that can make it relevant to them in their day to day job. So what they say about training is you lose most of it within a day or two after you've gone to the event.
Right? 75 % of the training is lost unless you apply it right away. And what we've done with cohort programs is the application, it tends to be a little stickier instead of stay because you have a coach working with you and that helps personalize the learning a great deal. And how does the coach enable the cohort group, however it's constructed or whomever is in that group, how do they help facilitate that?
and make it really, really productive. What's the work that the coach needs to do? Well, it's some of the work that they tend to do one on one in a group setting. They have to establish safety and they have to establish trust so that the cohort group, even though they won't maybe stay together after the formal program, they have to feel comfortable with each other. And so a coach has to establish that right up front. And that enables discussion, information sharing.
Bill Glenn (16:25.454)
collaboration as a cohort group. The other thing that the coach has to bring to those facilitated discussions is some structure. They've got to have an agenda. They've got to help the participant understand what they're trying to accomplish. And then the learning application is the other aspect of what coaching can help with. So I've gotten this content from the company or an expert. How do I apply to my role?
How do I transfer what I've just learned and make it relevant to my job? Those are some elements that the coaching really helps with in the cohort programs. What have you seen recently in your engagements with senior executives and CEOs? Are there some consistent themes that are emerging in the past two years that hadn't existed before? Definitely. The challenge is that
our clients and some of the ones I've been working with directly.
They are new and I'd also say there are sort of permanent changes to how leaders need to behave. As an example, there's been a lot of discussion about empathy and being empathetic leaders. And what that requires though is a leader demonstrating personal authenticity and the ability to connect on a different level with their staff, their team members, their direct reports. And I think
Because of people's experience after the pandemic and the notion of hybrid working and remote working, personal aspects of executives' lives have taken a bigger role, bigger role than ever before. And the firewall that used to exist between what happens at the workplace and what happens at home or what happens in society, those have all started to melt.
Bill Glenn (18:24.206)
And the challenges that our clients, our senior clients and leaders are having now is how do I demonstrate my authentic self? How do I impart and be deliberate about my expectations, my principles? And how do I bring my team for those who are in positions of leading teams? How do I bring my team along in a way that is effective and useful to the organization?
So some of the themes I'm helping clients with now are authenticity, being deliberate about your principles. Very quick example, and this is not unique to the many leaders, but most leaders don't like to be surprised. They like to be surprised by bad news, mistakes, or unexpected events. Very few share that with their team as a principle.
You don't think that's something you have to share. I don't want to be surprised. Don't surprise me. Instead, what happens is they react when it happens and it's not something that their team members understand. Very basic example, but being expressive and upfront about your expectations as a leader is something that most leaders need help with. It's not something that they think about because part of who they are. And so being able to draw that out with them as a coach and helping them display that and
convey that upfront is part of the work that we are. It seems like you have to do that on an individual level, but also meaning the CEO to the C -suite executive, but also the CEO to the team. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. The other challenge lately, and I've heard you use the term VUCO, which I think is really, really appropriate for the
instability, the turmoil, all the things that are going on that used to be considered outside of the workplace. Now leaders have to have a point of view. They have to have a point of view about what's happening, not only in their business, but to their business and in the marketplace and in society. And that's difficult. That's difficult to be able to do in a constructive manner. And you have to be thoughtful and be able to connect it to the values of the organization.
Bill Glenn (20:50.541)
So it's not just about how you feel as a person or an individual in society. You have to do that in a way that connects it to the values of the organization so that employees, colleagues, whatever you term your staff can make the connection within the context of the workplace. Well, I always talk about how our coaches love their craft. They just love what they do. And I know you and Barb are so proud of the
coaches we've assembled over the years. So when I talk about our coaches, I talk about their love of their craft and how best that they are into the executive's development. How do you think about our coaches? Well, I gotta say, you touched on something that personally excites me.
I feel really fortunate to be working with the cadre of coaches that we have with you and with Barb, but our roster of coaches, I think are really special. And here's why we talked about their dedication to their craft. And I agree with that, but the varied experiences that they have operating experience, being in business roles, some of our coaches are published. and
I also get the sense and getting to know each of them individually, there's a genuine care for helping our clients succeed. They really invest in helping clients be more effective, overcome challenges and be the best they can be in any number of situations. And that's not easy to come by. And there's something about the culture at Crenshaw that enables people to
be who they are, enjoy the work that they're doing. But the other element is to work with other colleagues who are doing similar work that you can connect with on a personal basis. We've talked about the need to be able to connect and how much more important that is these days. You're really, really lucky to be working at an organization like Crenshaw where we focus on that. We focus on getting together
Bill Glenn (23:14.477)
sharing information, collaborating and working together to get results for our clients. It's a very, very, very special place and culture that we have. Tell me a little bit about the fact that we have a proven methodology that we use consistently and yet at the same time we're asking our folks to make sure they're customizing it to the exact goals or the
personality, the objectives of that particular executive? Yeah. Well, our methodology is important because it works. And here's what I mean. The fact that we are grounding our approach in data, that we are very specific about working with our clients towards achieving specific goals. So not boiling the ocean, but deciding on
three or four very specific outcomes. The fact that we are stakeholder centered, so we don't go into organizations and disappear. We make sure we're working with the leader, we're working with HR and checking in constantly throughout the engagement so that we're on track and that the client is held accountable and we're held accountable. That methodology, I think, is really important. That said, every coach is different.
Every executive is different. So you are using the same approach, but you're meeting your client where they are and you are appreciating the context that you're operating in. So all that means is that you have to be aware of that and sticking to the same method and sticking to our use of data, our stakeholder centric approach. but doing it in a way that helps the client feel as though that they are, their needs are being uniquely met.
by the coach. That's really the job of coaches. And each of them do it in their way, bringing their experience and their capability, but definitely following our methodology. So our folks have sat in the seat, essentially, of the executives that they're working with. Yeah, the other thing they bring for those who have those operating experience backgrounds, they bring experience to their coaching. So
Bill Glenn (25:38.029)
In addition to the data, in addition to the theory and what they've learned as coaches, they can talk from experience. And you know that we make the distinction between coaching and advising. And I think that's a really important point because most of our clients at senior levels expect coaches to have advice in their toolkit.
Yeah, a point of view. Absolutely. They need to be able to opine, provide options. You're not telling the executive what to do, but you're giving them ways to think about how to solve a particular problem. And many of our coaches, myself included, you find yourself in a position where an executive literally says to you, what do you think I should do? What's your opinion about how to solve this problem? Again, you want to help them.
the discovery of coming up with a solution themselves. But I think there's an expectation again, for senior executives, that you have some scenarios to pull from, to draw from, to give them some options to think about for solving that problem. Right. Willem, you mentioned stakeholder alignment, and we know it's critically important. Our relationship with the key stakeholders in the engagement could be the CHRO and the CEA.
Can you give me an example of what you provide them in terms of insights without breaking confidentiality in the particular engagement or with the of the particular executive? Yeah, protecting the privacy and confidentiality of the coachee or the client and executive paramount. That is job one in any coaching engagement. And we emphasize that continually.
As we work with the executive, get them to open up and share and help them learn and help them develop and grow. The other obligation we have though is to stakeholders in the organization. And more often than not, they're the ones who asked for the coaching. They're the ones who are sponsoring it and paying the bill. Exactly right. So what coaches have to do is be really, really clear about.
Bill Glenn (28:03.501)
the role that they'll be playing with their client and what they'll be playing with the stakeholder. And for example, I'm working with a CEO who's very invested, very invested in a very high potential, talented member of her team that I'm working with. And she continually calls on me to find out how things are going, what we're working on, how this executive is progressing against their goals.
What I continually do and work hard to do is align closely with my client about what I'm going to share with the CEO. And we understand what will protect, meaning we won't share eggs, but I need to tell her that the following things are things we've talked about because she's looking for insight. And by the way, her involvement.
her investing, her caring about what's going on with you is important and we need to leverage it. We need to make her an active sponsor. So the work that's involved in the work that I have to do is just constantly, constantly align and never get ahead of my client with gotcha information. He will always know what I'm saying, what I'm sharing and feel as though
the confidence that we've agreed to is constantly protected. I also have to form a similar trusted relationship with the CEO. And so as a stakeholder, she has to feel as though I'm being trustworthy, I'm being an honest broker of information. And look, there is a bit of an art to this because she will share things sometimes that she doesn't want the client to know.
And I have to protect that confidentiality as well. So that's the shift and the things that the coaches have to manage with regard to stakeholder involvement and protecting confidentiality. We've talked a great deal about and heard from our customers about DEI. And personally, I think about DEI as more process and training.
Bill Glenn (30:30.189)
than necessarily development of diverse talent. That it's really, really important that you get trained into the legal aspects and protocols and processes.
but the outcomes of business development come from.
developing and retaining diverse talent and diversity in the wider sense of the acronym.
Gender diversity, racial diversity, thought diversity. How are you thinking about diversity and our coaches and having the right people to address that? Yeah. Well, interesting. And you said DEI, unfortunately, at the time we sit and think about this and reflect on it, the term itself is radioactive now and many
Leaders, organizations, politicians are giving it an unfavorable connotation. People don't think DEI as an acronym or whatever it is, is effective. And investments against it have been shrinking in some areas. Definitely we've seen it in colleges, we've seen it in some organizations. Here's where the rubber meets the road. And I know you get this bill because you just talked about
Bill Glenn (32:09.325)
customer focus and customer alignment.
Customers will always look for service providers or services that resonate with them. And if they're working with a company that does not include diverse representation, does not include different points of view, even if they don't feel like they're going to avail themselves of that difference, they're going to be reluctant to work with that company.
That's a business imperative. The other aspect though, that's really selling it for us at Crenshaw. And I know you understand this because you've been a proponent of this is that our clients, the executives themselves are increasingly diverse and of late have been asking for diverse coaches. They've been asking for a
approach that understands me that I won't have to explain things to that can help me face unique challenges as diverse talent in an organization. They're looking for that. So there's a lot of talk about the business case for diversity, how you have to, this, this is where the rubber meets the road. Clients are looking for it. And if you are a service provider, you have to be able to meet the
expectations of your customers and give them what they want to pay for. And part of that right now is diversity. It's in its simplest form. Now the implications for our coaches is significant because as a coach, you have to be able to say this all the time, but for diverse executives, it takes on a different meaning. You have to meet clients where they are. And so you have to be sensitive.
Bill Glenn (34:09.837)
aware and culturally competent. You have to understand what your client is going through and the work or the onus should not be on the client to make you understand. Tell me a little bit about that. That means is if you are a coach that doesn't share the diversity, the ethnic background or the gender of your coachee. Can't put the coachee in the position.
of explaining or enlightening or making you aware. You as the coach have to do the work. You have to figure out how you're going to help that client meet their objectives. If they have to expend extra energy to bring you along, you're not being helpful. End of story. And the same goes for, that's one of our value propositions for many of our coaches who've had
business operating experience, the executive doesn't have to explain what it means to meet revenue targets, sit in the seat or motivate a team because as a coach, you've been there, you understand it. I think the same can be said for diverse talent. You have a sense, you have an understanding of what it means to be the only woman on the executive team or the only person of color or a new
outsider who's diverse coming into a non diverse setting and the challenges you're going to face. And honestly, some of our coaches are more prepared than others to face those challenges. But the fact that we have diverse representation among our coaching roster makes a big difference as well. Well, you just talked a little bit about the engagement itself with the executive. A
black man or black woman to a black executive.
Bill Glenn (36:17.293)
Part of that engagement, which you've talked a great deal about, is the responsibility and the stakeholder alignment and the work that we do consistently sharing insights and maintaining confidentiality.
So how does that play out where the leader is a white man, for instance, or a white woman? And what's their role in supporting the work that you're doing with the executive? Yeah, absolutely.
Any leader, whether it's majority, diverse, working with a subordinate or direct report, wants to get the best and the most out of that executive. They want that executive to perform, meet objectives, be successful. That's the role of the leader. And if the leader is majority in this case, and the direct report is diverse, and I'm in the mix there, and I'm able to help.
There are a couple of ways I've done this very explicitly. I can help demystify some of the challenges that my client is undergoing with my client's permission, right? I'm not going to get ahead of my client in terms of what they're willing to share, personal anecdotes, challenges, how they've dealt with things that have happened in the organization. But we will agree that teaching that majority leader
what they need to know about motivating the coachee is part of the work. And it isn't, that isn't always the case, but oftentimes I can be an ally with the coachee and helping the majority leader understand some perspective that they may not have gotten before.
Bill Glenn (38:19.149)
I can facilitate some of the conversation and some of the learning. But the most important aspect of that dynamic is getting alignment with the client first, getting aligned with the diverse coachee about what they were trying to accomplish in this respect, in the area of diversity in particular. And it's not just about the engagement itself.
It's how helping the leader understand not only what it's like for that particular executive, but what it's like to be diverse in a not as diverse organization as it should be. And how do they lead and operate? Right. Right. Absolutely. One of the presumptions I'll make, though, is if they hide that individual, they knew this comes with bringing that person into that context. Right. I go out, I get
what I perceive to be a really talented head of sales who happens to be black and he's going to be the only black executive on the team. I hired him though, hopefully with my eyes open that there are going to be challenges bringing that person into this context. And I'm ready as the majority leader to help. I may not know how to go and I may not know all I need to and having
an informed and capable coach in that dynamic can be very, very helpful. It can be very helpful. But again, you have to sign up with the client first that they want that as part of the coaching. Because sometimes they don't want the racial or gender or diversity aspect to be the thing that they're getting coaching for.
Right. They want to be accepted on their own merits, on their own talents and not the fact that they happen to be of a different race or a different background. It's all about the focus. You often talk, though, about how much responsibility the executive themselves have. Yeah, I. It's not a popular it's not a popular.
Bill Glenn (40:41.837)
piece of advice, but I do believe, let's use the same example, a diverse executive joins a majority organization. They are going to be one of few, if not the only on the executive team. There's not a lot of diversity in the organization. For that diverse executive to expect the culture to change, to accommodate their needs or their differences, I think is ill -advised.
and not realistic. So my point often is you as the diverse executive, you're going to have to do most of the heavy lifting. You're going to have to do most of the adaptation. Not saying you should change who you are or not be authentic, but you're going to have to do most of the work. The culture, if people are earnest about changing the culture, great. But while that happens, you've got a job to do. You have to perform.
And who knows if it will happen in the meantime, you have to adapt. You have to make relationships. You have to face your unique challenges and you have to come up with tools to do that. And so the notion that you've joined an organization and you think things are going to change on your behalf or to facilitate your path there. I think is, is flawed thinking and I don't think it works.
There are a lot of executives who come in with those expectations and they don't last. They don't succeed because we use this term a lot. You know, the body rejects the organ, right? The culture is what it is. So you can be brought in to help change it, but I guarantee you there are things you're going to have to learn and adapt to in the meantime. And that goes for even people who are brought in to change the culture. So
A chief diversity officer, for example, can be brought in for aspects of their role to help the organization be more inclusive. But then to be effective, they've got to figure out how the culture already works and they're going to have to adapt. So what that means is how do decisions get made? You got to figure that out. Who are the power players? You got to figure that out. Who are the people I need to make relationships with? That's not going to change because
Bill Glenn (43:09.101)
your woman or your person of color. You've got to acclimate to all of that to get your agenda. I just think that that's the truth. And again, it's not always received well, but I think that's my honest assessment of the situation. Is there a recent example of a coaching engagement that you're personally involved with? Yes. A CEO
I've done work with, hired a head of HR, black female, hired her to come and make significant change in the organization. However, the CEO did not appropriately evaluate or understand just how much of the current culture this new head of HR was going to have to contend with.
to make the changes and, and did not plan for giving her words. I use giving her the appropriate air cover and sponsorship and both legitimate and soft power to be able to do what she needed to do. And she in that equation didn't know how to ask for it and resented having to ask for it, but it would
happened as a consequence of the role she was. Chief people officer. I'm here to make change. So people didn't listen. The CEO didn't back her up in moments of truth in the organization. And she ended up not lasting in the role. You know, they're one of the key derailers of new executives in general to an organization.
They don't understand the norms, practices and politics and culture of an organization. That happens regardless of someone's race or gender. But it's particularly difficult for a diverse executive versus a majority. Absolutely. Absolutely. And we've talked to clients about this. Most organizations get onboarding wrong.
Bill Glenn (45:34.221)
They don't know how to bring in new talent in an effective way so that talent can last, be retained, and bring their, you paid for differences. You paid for someone to operate in a different way, but you haven't figured out how to support them. And the executive themselves have not figured out what to ask for. And that's why I think our onboarding work is so incredibly valuable because we can bridge the gap.
we can help translate what that executive was hired for to acclimate effectively into the organization and hopefully accelerate their onboarding and integration and hopefully make it stick so that when we leave the engagement, they've learned some strategies and tools that will help them after the engagement is over. Willem, thanks so much for your time today. You really made an incredible difference.
in Crenshaw, in the capabilities, the talent and the development of our coaching organization that's translated into a huge value proposition for us, for our customers and the executives we coach. So thanks so much. Bill, thanks. It was a real pleasure to spend time with you today. And I got to tell you, I am really, really excited to be part of the Crenshaw team. I think we've got something special in that organization. The coaches
The coaching talent that we're building is amazing and you know how much I like working with you and Barb and the rest of the team. So glad to be able to talk with you. It's always easy. I really appreciate the time. Thanks.
